Counting Countries
According to the official blurb put out by my publishers I’ve visited 93 countries. (Not that anyone is counting!) I got an email the other day from a guy called Paul Evans asking me what criteria I used to get to that figure.
It turns out Paul is having a domestic with his wife over the issue. He thinks spending time in a transit lounge is enough. His wife claims that you need to eat a meal outside of the airport. (Just so, she can count Laos, he says.) A mutual friend of both reckons you need to spend a night.
Personally, the criteria I like to use is getting a stamp in my passport. It helps with the whole burden of proof thing, you see. But even that isn’t fool-proof. I have visas stamps for countries I didn’t get to visit (Eritrea) and none for EU countries that didn’t even bother to check my passport.
Paul’s question raised some other issues too. Do you count places that were once countries in their own right but have since been ‘reintergrated’ into a larger country like Hong Kong and Macau? And what about countries that have splintered into smaller states? If you travelled all over Yugolslavia before the war can you now count Croatia, Serbia, Bosnia and Macedonia? My feeling is that it depends on what the situation was when you visited that particular country.
I’ll be interested to hear what sort of criteria you guys use.
The Blog!
November 29th, 2005 at 1:57 pm
I reckon that you do have to at least leave the airport – stopovers on transit flights don’t really count (this is why I don’t count Hungary as a country I’ve ‘visited’).
Passport stamps can be tricky outside the EU as well – people I’ve met who went gorilla-watching in Uganda went into DR Congo for a few hours but didn’t get their passports stamped as this would have meant they’d've had to pay to re-enter Uganda! Apparently the border guards are amenable to this (presumably after a backhander).
As far as your last point goes Peter, I’m with you in that it’s the situation when you were in the country that counts – in fact, this must make for quite a bit of kudos with travellers who’ve been to countries that no longer exist, like East Germany and the Soviet Union!
November 29th, 2005 at 4:48 pm
It is an interesting issue to consider, perhaps in my spare time I will make a spreadsheet that calculates a weighted score based on level of experience. (Sound the Nerd alert)
I think you haven’t been in a country unless you have been through customs as a minimum, as beyond customs is technically international territory/no mans land.
Though, I have been to France 4 times but only once I would count as a semi reasonable visit, that being the one I rode from Calais to Strasbourg on my Vespa, and used my best French to call a petrol station attendant a f***wit, (Vous etes un con, if you are interested) because he wouldn’t let me look at a map to find my hostel.
However, the other three times, one was on Eurostar to Brussels, two times Snowboarding, I rate lower because as anyone will tell you who has been skiing in France, its like Kensington in the mountains.
November 30th, 2005 at 1:40 am
Now, Peter, be fair. The wife and I were merely fanning a bit of competitive spirit into the marriage. We save our ‘domestics’ for far more important subjects, such as who forgot to close the fridge door.
It’s a funny thing. Sooner or later travelers start to tally the countries. All have precis numbers, but with no consistency on the standards. Speaking of Nerds – do we need to set up a bureau to control this? Bragging backpackers have gone unchecked for too long!
It would be interesting to see a full list of your countries, Peter. After all, 93 is a very precise figure…
Some further grey areas:
– What about countries that are so boring that the airport is as good as it gets (Bahrain, for instance)?
– What about countries that have changed their name? Can you count these twice?
– United Kingdom – four or one?
– Passing through the country by bus, stopping for meals, but not actually doing anything?
– What if you’ve only been to a small part of a very big country?
November 30th, 2005 at 2:48 am
I tried to claim Zambia because we snuck over the border to see Vic Falls from there. No passport stamp though because we didn’t want to pay to get back into Zim. Friends wouldn’t have a bar of it. They are of the ‘must stay a night to count’ lobby.
November 30th, 2005 at 10:17 am
The nerd alarm is ringing in my ears. However, Paul makes an excellent point. Why don’t we examine Peter’s purported 93 countries? See how the list measures up to the various criteria.
Care to pick up the gauntlet, Peter?
Ian (32 inc’ HK)
November 30th, 2005 at 10:39 am
Hi Paul,
I guess I should point out that in Australia ‘a domestic’ is any disagreement in a marital or home environment. It is used for even the slightest disagreement and doesn’t imply any kind of sparring – verbal or otherwise!
Re: My 93 countries. I’m going to have to go away and work on that – surprisingly I don’t have an Excel worksheet at hand detailing them. When NSITT came out my publishers asked me how many countries I’d visited and I’ve just been adding to that number since. I shall get to it right away.
Also, another thought. Do you count the country you live in?
November 30th, 2005 at 11:13 am
I WAS WRONG! IT’S 94!
But before I go on, I’d just like to point out that you guys challenged me to do this. I’m not really a box-ticker. Well, only sometimes.
Anyway, using the Wikipedia List of Countries as my reference I have visted 94 countries. I’ve spent at least a night in all of them – except the Vatican City, the Pope wouldn’t let me sleep on his couch – and the list doesn’t include places that weren’t regarded as countries when I visted. i.e East Timor and Palestine.
The list in full:
1. Afghanistan
2. Albania
3. Australia
4. Austria
5. Bangladesh
6. Belgium
7. Belize
8. Bosnia and Herzegovina
9. Brazil
10. Bulgaria
11. Burundi
12. Cambodia
13. Canada
14. China (PRC)
15. Colombia
16. Congo (Brazzaville)
17. Congo (Formerly Zaire)
18. Cook Islands
19. Costa Rica
20. Croatia
21. Cuba
22. Czech Republic
23. Denmark
24. Ecuador
25. Egypt
26. El Salvador
27. Ethiopia
28. Fiji
29. France
30. Gabon
31. Germany
32. Greece
33. Guatemala
34. Honduras
35. Hong Kong
36. Hungary
37. India
38. Indonesia
39. Iran
40. Ireland
41. Israel
42. Italy
43. Jamaica
44. Japan
45. Jordan
46. Kenya
47. Korea (South)
48. Laos
49. Lesotho
50. Macau
51. Macedonia
52. Madagascar
53. Malawi
54. Malaysia
55. Maldives
56. Mexico
57. Morocco
58. Mozambique
59. Myanmar (Burma)
60. Nepal
61. Netherlands
62. New Caledonia
63. New Zealand
64. Nicaragua
65. Nigeria
66. Pakistan
67. Panama
68. Philippines
69. Romania
70. Rwanda
71. San Marino
72. Sao Tome and Principe
73. Serbia and Montenegro
74. Singapore
75. Slovakia
76. Somalia
77. South Africa
78. Spain
79. Sri Lanka
80. Sudan
81. Swaziland
82. Switzerland
83. Taiwan
84. Tanzania
85. Thailand
86. Turkey
87. Uganda
88. United Kingdom
89. United States
90. Vanuatu
91. Vatican City
92. Vietnam
93. Zambia
94. Zimbabwe
November 30th, 2005 at 11:16 am
Oh, and I’m going to Sweden on Saturday so soon it’ll be 95!
November 30th, 2005 at 11:17 am
I’m firmly in the ‘No you can’t count your own country’ camp. You don’t visit/travel to your own country.
Unless you’ve lived abroad most of your life. Heck, this is complicated.
November 30th, 2005 at 2:42 pm
Much though I hate to complicate things yet further, but: Does Hong Kong (pre-’97) count as a country? I thought it was a British colony!
(I’m on 24 countries by the way – not including the UK as I didn’t think to include my home country! Soon to be 25 as I’m going to Swaziland in a couple of days time…)
November 30th, 2005 at 3:33 pm
Come on, I think we can give ourselves Hong Kong. It’s a long way away, the food’s different, the alcohol’s like paint stripper and they speak funny. Plus, we need all the ”countries” we can get if we’re to hold our heads up in the (blogging) company of P.M.
Does the Isle of Man count?
November 30th, 2005 at 11:13 pm
You can’t count your own country? What if it’s a completely distinct area from the one you’re from? Since I’ve been to Quebec that’ll do for having “been to” Canada.
There’s an amusing anecdote in Simon Winchester’s Outposts about meeting the World’s Most Travelled Man on board a ship bound for Tristan. The guy had been to something like 295 “countries” and was hoping the boat would make a quick stop on Ascension so he could add yet another stamp. I think he was a member of the Century Travel Club and they seem to have a very liberal definition of what constitutes a country. By their rules Newfoundland, Tasmania, Corsica and Malaysian Boreno (among others) all count as seperate countries. What would your count be at under these standards, Peter?
Just to be as vague as possible, I’ll say that you have to have an experience in order for a country to count. I’ve driven through a pair of northern states and had a pint of Newcastle Brown Ale at LAX on the way to Jakarta last year and still don’t think I’ve properly been to the States.
December 1st, 2005 at 9:04 am
I think Paul (another one) is heading in the right direction. For a country to count the visit should entail some sort of ‘experience’. I would therefore argue that a bus trip through a country (however long, except if it breaks down) doesn’t count where as slipping over the border specifically to see something does count.
Incidentally I tracked down the Century Travel Club website (www.travelerscenturyclub.org) and took a look at their country list. A little bit sad really – they count Alaska, and Turkey got in twice. They do try very hard though.
So summarise – for a country to count:
– it should be internationally recognised as a country when you visit.
– you should have an ‘experience’ that is personally significant for you in that country.
A bit subjective, but fairly reasonable I think.
What about these chaps who are declaring their backyard as a separate country? You know – Supreme ruler of the Sovereign Nation of 18 Chestnut Grove.
December 1st, 2005 at 9:39 am
Paul,
Just checked the Century Travel Club and according to their criteria I can add another 13 ‘countries’. i.e.
95. Tasmania
96. Scotland (Counting UK mentioned above as England)
97. Wales
98. Turkey in Asia (Counting Turkey above as Turkey in Europe)
99. Morocco, Spanish
100. Zanzibar
101.Kalimantan (Indonesian Borneo)
102. Sulawesi
103. Sumatra
104. East Timor
105. Lesser Sunda Islands (Bali, Timor)
106. Tibet
107. Alaska
A very dodgy list if you ask me.
On your point about ‘self-declared’ states, I wonder if I can count Hutt River Province, ‘the second largest country on mainland Australia’. I met the ruler, Prince Leonard, which was an experience, plus I got a stamp in my passport.
Might just have to take it up with the Century Travel Club …
December 1st, 2005 at 12:43 pm
check this tool out. fill out the check boxes and it creates a map of visited countries for you.
some of the comments are worth a read too.
http://douweosinga.com/projects/visitedcountries
December 1st, 2005 at 1:15 pm
I just visited the site recommended by Ronnie (it’s brilliant) and discovered that I have only visited 41% of the world.
Better pull my finger out and crack on with the other 59%!
December 1st, 2005 at 10:49 pm
Sigh, I’ve done 10% and Ronnie’s map exaggerated my reality, which I kind of liked.
December 2nd, 2005 at 9:42 am
Ronnie’s map tells me I’ve been to Alaska – and I can’t remember a thing about it.
December 2nd, 2005 at 10:54 am
Ronnie’s map says I’ve done 11% – but it looks fairly impressive as this includes Russia (the whole country is coloured in even though I ‘only’ went to Moscow and St Petersburg!). Oh well, only 89% of the world to go…
December 2nd, 2005 at 3:08 pm
Hey all,
How about Countries you visited with parents or lived in but were to young to remember?
Have fun in Sweeden, bring some blondes back with you please….
December 6th, 2005 at 9:45 pm
I agree with some of the comments that you should have encountered an experience to constitute a ‘visit’. Whilst in Thailand, i refrained from crossing the bridge to Burma (at the time) just to get another stamp in the passport, and don’t count the fact i travelled by coach through half of Europe to get to 1 country!
In answer to the ‘dodgy’ list , i think that UK shouldn’t be counted as one, as they are 4 seperate countries. they have thier own football teams!!! and…ask any person from either country, a Scot will not say he is from UK, he is from Scotland. They are 4 very distinctive countries, with their own histories, languages & cultures.
Also although i don’t i sometimes want to count Hawaii differently from the US. The only thing american is the currency. I can see why Alaska is counted seperately. i think to count a country you should travel the country. I found it difficult saying i had been to America, when i had spent 2 nights in Seattle!
Another question. What constitutes living in a country? I spent 4 months in Canada, but my wife says i wasn’t living here!
Did the map – very cool!
December 12th, 2005 at 2:45 pm
I’ve been debating this point for a while with another travel writer. And we were both reading this nonsense:
http://www.mosttraveledman.com/standards.asp
It’s acceptable to touch a portion of an island above a waterline? Oh, COME ON.
The lists out there are HIGHLY suspect. Alaska is NOT another country from the US. That’s completely ridiculous. East Timor, however, IS a country in its own right, and visiting it prior to independence still counts. Something like Hong Kong is open to debate. And these people who are counting like they are racking up frequent flyer miles need to be ignored, or categorized with train-spotters.
I propose another criteria: Common sense. C’mon, you know when you’re pushing it. I once stayed a night in Taiwan. Yes, I got the stamp. Yes, I left the airport… went all the way to the airport hotel and then in the morning I got on a plane to Tokyo. Have I been to Taiwan according to all these country-counter rules? Yes! Have I really been to Taiwan? Of course not.
I used to argue with Turbo, an Aussie who claimed he’d been to Korea several times because he kept changing planes there. He was keen to say he’d visited Korea but it used to drive me nuts because changing planes is NOT visiting a country. I’m not going to suggest that people need to stay with a local family in the forest and go native… but you know when you’ve visited and when you are faking it. ‘Fess up. It’s not so hard.
December 14th, 2005 at 12:15 pm
Interesting and relevant discussion to the ever-increasing number of world travellers. I would submit that for larger multi-state countries, separate lists should be kept. For example, I have been to 32 US states, 3 Australian states, and 2 Canadian provinces…
December 14th, 2005 at 12:30 pm
Logan, if you check out the site mentioned in Marie’s comment above, you’ll see that they have a more ‘liberal’ approach that does count states and provinces. Have a look and see what you think of their criteria.
January 5th, 2006 at 2:52 am
I like Marie’s common sense approach.
If you spend a night but only see the airport, the taxi and the hotel, does it count? If you don’t spend a night but you go there specifically on a day trip, exchange currency at the border, visit the place, have a meal, etc, does it count?
Another problem is that countries vary so much that you can’t necessarilly count them the same way. I mean it’s a different thing to visit Luxembourg or Russia for instance. A country like France theoretically includes islands like Tahiti that are at the antipodes from the French mainland so should they be counted separately or not? If visiting a country involves interracting with the people, what about countries where different regions use different languages, such as Switzerland, Belgium, Spain? Should they be counted as one or several? What about countries that are not recognised as independant or are disputed, like Taiwan or Western Sahara? Should Greenland be counted separately or as part of Denmark? What about Antarctica: a whole continent but no independant country?
So I’ll go with Marie’s approach. Common sense is good but is a very rare commodity these days.
January 10th, 2006 at 11:56 am
Great blog! Nice to see that I am not the only country counting cucumber around.
First of all I like the listing and argumentation on http://www.worldatlas.com/nations which I use for my own reference.
According to this list one should not count ‘countries’ like Cook islands, Hong Kong, Macau, New Caledonia and Taiwan as separate countries.
Passing through customs is my criterium and from my experience it’s hard not to have some sort of experience (different than what you are used to in your own country).
I used to count with the ‘at-least-one-night-overstay’ rule until I discovered that this would make it almost impossible to add Vatican City. I think you are not allowed to stay over (even when the Pope is in critical condition).
My latest count is 41 countries (43 and 19 % according to the world66map) and next one will hopefully be Morocco in February.
Not very reassuring to see that Peter’s incredible list of 90+ countries only comprehends 41% of the world!!! Happy travelling and remember: the world is a book and those who not travel…..
January 11th, 2006 at 10:20 am
Hi Dennis,
Thanks for the comment. I’d have to disagree with World Atlas about the Cook Islands however. I know officially it’s a NZ protectorate but it ain’t nothing like New Zealand. Sally and I got married in the Cook Islands by a minister with an Afro and a choir of large ladies in hibiscus shirts and their front teeth missing. Not sure that he churches of NZ would offer a service like that. Or have a guy playing a ukulele greeting every flight coming in to Auckland!
January 11th, 2006 at 11:28 am
World Atlas does acknowledge that there really is no 1 right answer when it comes to the question ‘how many countries are there?”.
However, compared to TCC, world66 and mosttraveledman (didn’t check wikipedia yet) this is definitely the best list I could find on the net.
More importantly, it mentiones ‘only’ 193 countries which should make it easier to get a 100 % score (not!).
I hear what you say about the Cook Islands. The Netherlands and Aruba (and/or the Dutch Antilles) also do not have much in common. Still, I am counting them as one country (Kingdom of The Netherlands) even though Aruba has a so-called ‘status aparte’.
It’s not important anyway. It’s the experience that really counts.
I would love to visit as many countries as I can, but uptil now I never went to a country just for the sake of getting a stamp or to sleep in a hotel.
Maybe that will change when I reach TCC’s 100 countries milestone?
For the moment I will just look at your impressive list with envy.
February 27th, 2006 at 2:37 pm
I definitely agree with the common sense approach … In France we say “J’ai fait les Etats-Unis ou l’Australie” whilst trying to impress someone over a 10 course meal and getting blind drunk on Bordeaux wine in the process!!! this literally means I’ve done the States or Australia, pretty silly really as this means that surely you have seen all there is to see etc. and you don’t need to go back!!
How can us travellers ever say such a thing.. Obviously can make for a good pick-up line in a bar!
The time period factor also comes into the problem again when you tell friends “oh you really should go there, its amazing” ten years after your visit!! When they get back from their trip and say “well it really must have changed since then”.. – this happened recently to me twice!! I will never advise again!!
For really large countries it is also incredibly hard to say you’ve been there and notch it up on your incredible score if you have only seen an incredibly miniscule part of it all… for example I usually end up saying “I’ve been along the south coast of Australia from Perth to Sydney by camping car”. At least this way its pretty precise!
PS I’ve also had “domestics” with my husband on this point!!
May 19th, 2006 at 5:15 pm
So glad I am not the only one keeping count.
We all have slightly differing criterion.
I tend to base it on at minimum having gone there intentionally (not just as a transit stop), had a meal there and had some sort of local experience, not merely an airport etc.
Is it a country? For me does it have a separate passport – sadly the UK is not four the price of one in my reckoning.
When countries change – I base it on what it was at the time I was there – if I’d been to Dili prior to Independence, just part of my Indonesia experience, only if I’d gone since could I count East Timor. Hong Kong – was it still independant? OK I’d count it – it was a separate entity at that time, but couldn’t double dip and count that trip as China too …. unless I went to somewhere else in China other than HongKong.
Extent – this is not something I’d given a lot of thought to – I am counting if I’d been to a country not if I had thoroughly explored that place. I spent a week in Rome but have not had the chance to see anywhere else in Italy – would this mean I shouldn’t count Italy? I think it counts!